the debt ceiling is not there now? >> even if you don't want to listen to the president, like, listen to fitch and moodies and all the rating agencies who say this is not an economic issue. this is a political crisis that the united states is going through right now. and the thing about this, rev, is that this is a policy without a constituency. who backs this? who backs the idea to say basically, we're going to spend and spend and spend. and when the bills come up, we're not going to debate how we're going to spend in the future. if you want to have a larger conversation about spending, then we can have a larger conversation about spending. the moment we confuse them is when we start damaging the long term prospects of where this country can be economically. >> but nia, in fairness, there have been, at least in this area, some prominent republicans that are starting to point out that this is a little too far up here. senator murkowski says if you incur an obligation, you have the responsibility to pay for that. and th